Alex Meade, VP of Sales and Marketing at Beacons Point, sits down with Ken Lundin, president of Ken Lundin & Associates and RevHeat, to discuss the new era of sales on The B2B Growth Marketer Podcast.
Episode Show Notes:
It’s no secret that things have changed; the pandemic exposed weak points in many sales and marketing teams. The old way of selling and marketing doesn’t cut it anymore, and teams that can pivot to a new normal are the ones that succeed. Ken Lundin has a unique ability to hone in on what a team can do to succeed and how to implement the strategies. So we wanted to pick Ken’s brain on what he thinks a fully optimized team looks and functions like in the new era of sales and marketing.
Ken Lundin, President of Ken Lundin Associates & RevHeat
Creator of the Sales Alpha Roadmap, to suggest him as a guest on your show. Ken can draw from over 20 years in the sales industry and share expert advice on how to initiate growth in your business, especially during times of hardship and unpredictability.
Connect with Ken Lundin on Linkedin
Alex Meade, Beacons Point, VP of Sales & Marketing
Alex is the VP of Sales & Marketing at Beacons Point, a leader of HubSpot User Groups, the host of the B2B Growth Marketer Podcast, and a collector of Kurt Vonnegut books and San Diego craft beer.
Connect with Alex Meade on LinkedIn
Subscribe to The B2B Growth Marketer Podcast on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you listen.
00:01:25 – How COVID leveled the playing field
00:05:36 – What does it take to effectively manage a team?
00:10:05 – The role empathy plays in sales and marketing
00:14:30 – How working remote has affected sales
00:21:20 – Building blocks of sales and marketing
00:23:10 – The relationship between sales and marketing
Alex Meade [00:00:06]
Welcome back to the B2B Growth Marketer Podcast. I’m Alex, your host. And today we have Ken Lundeen. With us in Ken, welcome. Thanks for joining us.
Ken Lundin [00:00:16]
Well, I’m fired up to be here. There’s nothing I like talking about more than how to grow companies.
Alex Meade [00:00:22]
Awesome. All right, then we’re gonna have a great conversation. And and so I think, you know, based on some of the conversations we had, you know, we’ve already had conversations about this is, in one aspect, sales and marketing, you know, more sales during the pandemic. Everybody put their hands up and said, like, what do we do now? Like, what, what how do we how do we change this, some companies already set up, they’re already doing fine. But a lot of companies, a lot of salespeople said like, Well, what do we do now? And now that we’re, what, almost two years since? Since the start were like 18 months, 20 months? What are some of the things so you work with businesses, and you help grow? What are some of the things you’ve noticed, that have changed from a sales perspective and companies in the last two years or since the pandemic started?
Ken Lundin [00:01:12]
Well, I think the first thing that let me first of all, say hi to all the marketers, because if you’re a marketer, here’s a gig and you’re frustrated with the sales teams you’re working with. It’s because in 2021, the last stat I saw was 75% of salespeople aren’t going to hit 75%, of quota. But they’re pointing back at marketing Go on, give me better stuff, man. So, you know, ultimately, I think that leads into what’s really, really occurred and COVID just exposed how poorly sales teams have been running. Right, you get this kind of remote environment that we all have to function in. And some of the things they could do to make up for their lack of sales process or ability to drive value and deliver value. were exposed because now they couldn’t gladhands somebody take them to a nice steak dinner and get a deal done. Right? Yeah, basically leveled the playing field. So now, it’s really made the disparity between the top performing individuals and teams in the middle in the average, I mean, it’s just it’s widened the gap. So the haves have more and the have nots have less.
Alex Meade [00:02:16]
Yeah, so how, you know the the steak dinners taking them to box seats at games. You know, my dad is a is a salesman for Hormel, he he was slinging spam and chili. And that was their go to like as kids, we went to the you know, the company seats at at baseball games and whatnot. So obviously, that’s like a, that’s a, you know, a maybe I don’t want to say a different generation of, of sales tactics, because I don’t know if I think they’ll still work to a degree. But pandemic, you couldn’t, couldn’t do that you could do any of that. How did? Was it people that were able to build genuine relationships and for and like expose the challenges and provide the value? Is the people that could do that? Are they the ones still succeeding during remote? Or like, what is it about the people that are still succeeding?
Ken Lundin [00:03:07]
Well, I think the number one thing is that they’re truly client centric. And yet people do that all the time. Oh, I’m in this for you, Mr. Jones. I’m in this for you, Mrs. Smith. And the truth is, they’re coming at you. And like when you’re you can smell it through the zoom, right? They’ve got this commission, like just trying to knock a deal out by the end of the month or a quarter. So those people that’s the problem. So you have that issue, the top tier, the creme de la creme that we talk about, they’re really the ones who know how to drive value. And what I mean by that is, they’re helping solve a problem that is beyond the problem, the inbound lead brought to them in the beginning. Right, you see in the stat 65% of the buyers journey is done by the time sales engaged. And I would tell you that well, that’s all well and good. But they’re usually asking about the wrong problem. It’s functional. It’s like, if you’re a SaaS provider, they’re going, Hey, I need data reports. Nobody’s gonna spend 200,000 bucks a year on better reports that look prettier. Now, I’ll spend $200,000, tomorrow, for better this better data to drive better decisions in my organization that will help me remove risk increase, increase revenue or decrease expenses. So the creme de la creme are the ones who are saying, Hey, I know you said that your knee hurts. But walk to the door, and they noticed that your hip is the real problem.
Alex Meade [00:04:32]
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that’s that’s a great point. I mean, what the what the what the initial thing is, that’s the objective or the the the first issue is usually surface level. And it’s, it’s probably one of five things. I need better reports. I need more leads. I need better content. And it’s like these, you know, I need we need to grow. That’s also my favorite. But it’s usually you know, there’s the That’s the the high level, the top line thing that they know that they need. And it’s it’s that digging deeper, like you said, that really defines that. Now, you also mentioned like that sales teams expose some gaps in that. And I think a lot of people could say, that might be on the sales leaders, the trainer’s the directors of you know, the director of sales, the managers of these teams, you know, you as with your experience, like what, what does it take to effectively manage a sales team, a team of two or a team of 20? You know, like, what are some things that you think about when when that when that’s approached with you?
Ken Lundin [00:05:36]
Yeah, I think so. That’s a great question. And by the way, knowing those knowing what they’re coming to you, for you marketed for a few companies I see. So here’s the five, maybe how many of us, right? That’s why I love talking to you. But so when you think about I think you’ve actually asked two separate questions. Sure. The two questions that I heard were What about sales process? Is that incumbent upon management or leadership to make sure that a repeatable, trainable predictable sales processes in place? And the second question is will then how do you manage? So I’m going to start with how you manage and then we can if we can work over to the process side. So how you how you manage? I’ll tell you what, there’s a huge gap in management now, right, it’s gotten even worse, because prior to the pandemic, you know, the MAR tech stack, the sales, tech stacks are expanding, there’s 1000s of options that provides you all sorts of information that paralyze you that you just stare at your screen, and you don’t actually go to a manager and leadership is supposed to do which is we’re supposed to be leading in interacting with people. That is, yeah, the job, right. But yeah, investors involved, you get public companies, you get whatever, and everybody wants to report. And we got to go about customizing and figuring this stuff out. Because nobody will look at any one system. And it’s whatever, it’s silly. So managing them, I’ll tell you, the number one kind of tip I would give, if you’re listening today, I don’t care what discipline you are in a business. You know, I always tell people, Hey, here’s the deal. If you’ll do this thing, you will crush it as a manager, and you’ll know when to let people exit. And that’s this, you, as a manager leader need to understand the personal and professional goals of your subordinates. It’s not enough though, you then have to show them how the company can be the vehicle to those goals. And when the company can no longer be the vehicle. It’s cool, if you part ways. So I think that’s the first thing I mean, get back to the human to human empathy part of this, it doesn’t have to be don’t be sympathetic, understand where they are in the world understand their plight. So it’s one you got to understand that to the probably the biggest mistake that I see in organization after organization, and we serve companies from 2 million to 2 billion. And it’s across them all. Is the sheer lack of guidelines, or kind of like, you know, gutter blockers, like in a bowling lane that keep the ball in play. Right? Yeah, the sheer lack of guidance on what success should look like in their role, and then holding them accountable to it. You know, they go back to my mother, and I’ll digress here, my very first company, I said, Whoa, it’s gonna be altruistic. And I’m gonna give everybody the month of December off, because we’re all going to be so nice and work together. And, you know, and I didn’t manage anybody. And that went horribly. I see a lot of that still going on in business today. I mean, I don’t know, I could be wrong with your experience.
Alex Meade [00:08:44]
Yeah, it’s, uh, I think there’s a lot of good sales leaders that are preaching this that are preaching, you know, what it is to be an effective trainer and manager, because that becomes your role at a certain point. And and I think there are some good people out there talking about it in training, you know, you yourself are probably, you know, saying I’m probably in the same soapbox, but I think there’s a lot of companies out there and there’s a lot of, there’s a lot of people that have been grown that have grown their careers, maybe without those people so they don’t have anybody that they’ve learned that from and so they’re going off the you know, seat of their pants of now I’ve got now I have two SDRs under me, and quota, you got to get your quarter, and then there’s really no guidance or experience of how to train them. And I think that, I think from like big companies. Yeah, I guess I guess I can’t speak to everybody. But I think you know, some of the some of the more startup techs that are getting better funding, they’re poaching talent for a reason. And those are probably fine, but I think it’s those medium to small businesses that people are getting lost is what we’ve noticed and you you know, talking about your process, oh, we’ll get to your process question. We’ll get to the process. Next. You mentioned epic The Empathy. What does that play? In? You know, I think I mean, I want to ask both sales and marketing, maybe let’s talk about from a sales perspective, what is what does empathy mean? Or like, what role does it play in a salespersons? Job? You know, and what’s interesting
Ken Lundin [00:10:19]
is I think this is one like I separated the last question, I made it difficult for you, right? And then this is one that I think you could actually bring together. And so this is the reason right? So empathy is true empathy, at the end of the day, is truly understanding what someone’s going through, right, truly understanding where they are, and what what what challenges, what risk what things they aspire to, you used to the do these old, you know, ideal client profiles or personas, right? And it was 747 details about where did they what newspaper did they read? What time did they go to bed? You know, now we’ve gotten so just blind, it’s, you know, work selling to the VP of Engineering at XYZ Co. and empathy is the difference in sales and marketing. The ability to be empathetic one, to understanding how to use that role in a communication is the difference between top tier marketers, and top tier salespeople from everybody else? Because, yeah, you know, we used to play a role back when I was just, we just got going with Ken Lundeen. associates, I play as a chief sales officer for one company every year. And I did that because I wanted to be client facing and test everything we did. And at the end of the day, what I knew is I could be client facing and under three weeks, I did it with software, and then did it with mystery shopping. Right? So it’s both in her discipline. Yeah. And here’s what it came down to was 100% of what I was trying to do was be empathetic to what’s going on in the role, because my job was not to be the product expert. My job was to know what Alex needed. What’s Alex going on? What’s Alex’s problem? What’s Alex got happening? Because I think now I would argue that the vast majority of marketers and salespeople have very shallow ICPs and personer developments. And I would argue that they truly don’t understand who they’re actually trying to talk to.
Alex Meade [00:12:15]
I agree, I don’t think I don’t think enough people know, those deep levels, and you can’t, you can generalize some, but you can’t generalize all of them. And, you know, I think, you know, I can I can I can try to gauge some ideas, I can get things off people’s LinkedIn, I get stuff off companies, if they’ve been on a podcast, or they’ve written a blog, you know, all these things I can I can grab but it’s not until you have that conversation that you know, really what you’re gonna uncover. And I think that’s, that’s also part of it. And I don’t think I don’t think enough people. I don’t think enough people put an emphasis on the empathy side of the conversation. And a good friend of mine, Terry Arbab has a he’s been doing clubhouse weekly on a emotional in he calls it intelligence. And like the emotional intelligence, it takes in a sales sales to, to capture that, essentially, that essence of like, what is it about this person, both career and personal because it’s, it’s, you know, those are very much connected, especially right now. I mean, you can see I’m at home. And so, you know, people get a glimpse into their lives. And it’s, it’s, it’s really figured out how to make that connection to then figure out what’s the deeper concern or challenge they have that they’re trying to figure out? That I think kind of ties back to, you know, the the client centric sales process.
Ken Lundin [00:13:42]
Yeah, I think your client centric and empathetic those things are the things that make miracles happen from a sales growth perspective, you know, and it let’s step back, so I’m gonna blame everybody on this podcast. So if you want blame, also, I got enough to go around. The other thing I’m going to blame and it’s no, there’s a blame component, but it’s also because they don’t know how to do it. Well, that’s not true. There’s a blame flatlined component and executive leadership as part of the problem. And the reason they’re part of the problem is they’re just saying, hey, all these marketing technology tools, all these sales SEC tools, let’s go faster. Instead better, right? Put out 17,000 emails, when they don’t understand that if they don’t do technical stuff, demarks SPF, this kind of stuff that they’re gonna blow up their URL like but they’re still say marketing put out 100 100,000 emails there, say in sales, right, automate this thing and go spam everybody on LinkedIn. There’s a place for all those tools to work, but I think the issue has become with remote. We’ve even gotten to the point where I think we are. We have hyper sensitized ourselves to speed. Right? And you and I both know, like account account based marketing or sales, right? You’ll actually sell a whole lot more In that environment in most cases by actually talking to less people, or trying to prospect Yes, people Yeah, right. Yeah. But the vast majority of people out there, I think executive leadership just think it’s more instead of better, because they don’t want to take the time think about a heart is your technical founder, let’s say you got $12 million in sales or arr. You’re a technical founder, your product whiz, your product can do everything. Man, it’s really hard to narrow that. What are those three things that are the most important for your mean? We’ve seen we’ve seen companies struggle with that for years. Yes. So I think executive leaders, it’s incumbent upon them to actually try to be better and more efficient, rather than just make a volume shoot.
Alex Meade [00:15:45]
Yeah, I think I think there’s like this. There’s like this graph, probably, what, 10 years ago, five years ago, marketing automation, and sales, automation, and personalization, you could find just like, it’s like, oh, I can make that email feel like I sent it to just you. But I’ve sent it to 1000 people this month. And I think we’re like, I think we’re just coming down. And people are people are still sending 100 emails a day. 150 emails a day that are just kind of like send all versus taking the time to think about it, personalize an approach finding a segmented group that that can be personalized at scale, but maybe not 100 a day. And I think we’re tools, outreach HubSpot, me, all of them have allowed us to basically scrape data and information to mass emails. And I forget where I saw this data in, I forget the exact date. I know, this is not helping anybody. But it’s more, it actually came from HubSpot more sales, outbound emails were sent in 2021, than ever before, and the effective rate has dropped to the lowest it’s ever been. So more people are sending emails, and less people are actually it’s actually effective for them. And I think that I think that talks to that, that, you know, that approach that you’re talking about where you spend more time on fewer accounts, and you can actually do the work, you’re going to be more successful, I can tell you right now, all of my most successful sales opportunities didn’t come from me sending a quick email. If they responded to that it took another six months of us talking on LinkedIn, engaging content, going to webinars like, you know, engaging with each other before anything maybe even happened. And I think, I think executives don’t understand that process, either that a cold outreach is gonna take four times longer than a than a somebody who came through a different channel, or that has a better relationship
Ken Lundin [00:17:57]
with. Yeah, and I think there’s a necessity to have cold outreach and to try to create an inbound environment. But yeah, but I agree with you. And you know, it’s awesome talking to you, Alex, because you’re in this unique situation, right, of being the VP of Sales for a fantastic marketing organization. Right. So that’s super cool to kind of be able to have that because you kind of see what’s going on with your clients. And at the same time, you got to carry a number. You know, and so yeah, I think I think when you think about that, it was obvious. The other thing that’s funny is right, just think about January as an example. What’s going to happen in January, the amount of emails are going to go through the roof everybody left in in males and connections through the roof, because all of a sudden, everybody’s got a New Year’s resolution that they’re gonna prospect.
Alex Meade [00:18:44]
Yeah, right. Quarters reset. I mean, like everything is everything’s fresh. Yeah, yeah. Get ready, get your inbox ready. Get your spam filter set up. You get them as well. Yeah.
Ken Lundin [00:19:00]
I was I say two years ago, I actually stopped doing anything on LinkedIn in the month of January because I didn’t want to deal with email.
Alex Meade [00:19:07]
So I’m sure you get in as well, I get it really actually. It’s like created a whole task. We have to go through our database and like lead forms, and take out everybody who’s just trying to sell us backlinks and guest posting by reaching out to our website or just emailing us it’s getting actually like creating like more work than I really do. The people really hire, hire these people.
Ken Lundin [00:19:36]
People are gonna tagging. So no, they’ve never heard of tagging in a in a marketing CRM. And then at the same time, you know, there’s a reason that the people still send the thing about how they have 26 million in some South American country, and if you’ll just give them your bank account number, they’ll wire it to you. Because we’re all for that, too. So I guess they still do it.
Alex Meade [00:19:57]
Yeah. Yeah. You know, you Write up that I in like living in this like, kind of perfect world of what I’m seeing in marketing and then translating that sales. I’m a marketer. I self taught sales one day, you know, five years ago or so we kind of sat down as a cause to three owners to owners. And we said, well, we’re both just doing client work. And we just happen to get random jobs coming. So we keep like, we’re staying afloat. But nobody’s actually thinking, what does our client is three months, six months and 12 months. And so, you know, I don’t know if you want to if I draw the short straw, the long straw, but I’m essentially took over sales that day, and kind of self taught. And so it’s been a I’ve made all these mistakes, I have sent hundreds of emails a day, I have taken the time to write 10 in like, super personalize it videos at all. And I’ve kind of found a sweet spot somewhere in there. Outbound is certainly I wouldn’t say it’s a necessity. It’s certainly part of a sales. It’s part of a sales and growth strategy. But I think it just is, there’s different ways to do it, that it can be more effective.
Ken Lundin [00:21:11]
I think imminently The problem is, you know, it comes back to you, you know, before people start working with you guys, they’ll the old adage applies, right, you waste 50% of your marketing dollars, you just don’t know which 50%. And it’s just inherent in its inherent on Pon people because they’re not. It’s just so if you’re listening to this, I mean, here’s the issue, right? It’s building blocks, people, this is a system, there’s a systematic way to go to market to test messaging, there’s a systematic way to test how that works with adspend. There’s a systematic way to go through that. And so if you’re a company is trying to grow, and you don’t have a system, like we’re talking about sales process earlier and never came back to it. If you still think sales is more art than science, you’ve already captured growth potential. Right? If you think marketing, I don’t know what true attribution looks like, you may have somebody who’s just providing you all these pretty reports. And they have lots of numbers on them. But they don’t say Well, in this part of the funnel we’re trying to do is do email captures, because they’re going to do a nurture. And this is how well that’s working. Oh, and in this part of the funnel, we’re trying to do this, and they’re not aligning to the buyer journey in the appropriate ways. You’ve captured growth potential. And what you’ve also done is capture profit potential because your CAC your customer acquisition costs gonna be too high, you’re gonna spend too much in places that you shouldn’t be spending money. So you get this just this thing, where if you’re not really, really aware of their systematic ways to grow companies, your growth potentials captain, so as your earnings potential, and that’s just not a great feeling as an entrepreneur who has a fantastic product or service that’s better than everybody else, but can’t get anyone else to see it.
Alex Meade [00:22:54]
Yeah. What would be, what would be your advice to the marketer out there listening that they probably think in 50% of what I’m doing is good 50% I’m doing is probably not as effective. But they don’t know which one, what would you say to them?
Ken Lundin [00:23:10]
Yeah, I’d say if you haven’t figured out what your main purposes like I think this probably goes to you know, you and we talk all the time about how do we get sales and marketing on the same? Same side, right? Because I started this by saying, hey, sales is pointing at marketing marketing is like, I gave you 7422 leads, I don’t know what the problem is. Marketing part of the problem is you give 7422 leads to two people. So this is never going to work it right. So your lead scoring is off, whatever. But the big thing I’d say is if you’re listening and you’re not sure which piece of your marketing is working, is really to figure out what your purpose is. And that purpose should be aligned with marketing and sales. And it should each part of your marketing funnel should have a specific purpose, right? Are we going from cold to warm to hot traffic? Understanding that there is a there’s a part of the buyer journey where they’re just researching to figure out what the heck the problem is. There’s another part where they’re trying to research what the potential solutions could be. Right? And then there’s a part oh, by the way that most marketers miss. How do you grow the oil belonged lifetime value of the customer on the back end? What are the things you what are the things you can be doing to help take a SaaS company who has a $50,000, you know, annual contract, but has 200,000 annual annual dollars that could be selling to that client, that would be helpful. So I think really comes down to this purpose. And then making sure with those purposes, you track and making sure that you understand everything is a test, and you’re not right about anything, because I promise you the second you think you’re right, that’ll switch Facebook will change an algorithm, Google will change an algorithm LinkedIn will change an algorithm or, you know, something like the pandemic will happen.
Alex Meade [00:24:47]
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there’s a lot of things there that I think are important. I mean, you mentioned you know, there’s there’s additional revenue from an existing client. And I think we’ve noticed within in customer service, you know, client management, sales marketing, there’s everyone thinks the other one’s doing it, or is responsible for it, and there’s not enough discussion about it. You know, because sales is probably saying, Oh, that’s a, that’s a client management. Challenge, that’s, that’s something they should be doing is, is doing upsells and cross sells. But really, it’s, it’s the, it’s the team’s, you know, challenge that they need to figure out. And I don’t think enough team, I don’t think there’s enough teams that are that are coming together like that. We have clients all the time, that sales has a definition of what their lifecycle stages and buyers journey, and they’re reporting on these metrics to their CEO. And then sales has their definitions of what the sell lifecycle stages are. And they’re reporting on those to the CEO. But they’re not telling each other what they’re reporting on, and what those mean. And you know, you get in a situation where, you know, marketing, marketing was getting it was getting like, potentially budgets cut because they weren’t converting enough SQL, because that’s the message they’re using. And it turns out anytime, you know, an MQL, booked a meeting, and it was successful to the next stage, it was automatically called an opportunity. So nobody was being clicked to, nobody was being called in SQL. So we like I think, like part of the process, part of these teams, and alignment is also just a complete, just open understanding of what we’re all doing. And what we’re all trying to achieve. It’s the same thing, we’re all trying to achieve the same thing. We want to grow revenue, grow clients, you know, provide a better product and customer service. And I just don’t think enough teams, you know, sales, alignment, sales, marketing alignment is a is a buzzword, that everybody likes to say, we’re a marketing sales company. And I think we could improve our sales marketing alignment, and I’m in charge of both, like I am both, and I think we could improve that. And I don’t think enough companies are actually doing it. They’re saying they’re doing it, but they’re not actually really doing it. Yeah. And I think it’s because something was notice. Yeah,
Ken Lundin [00:27:17]
yeah, I think the amount of data that exists is part of the problem. Because instead of saying, you know, like, simplify everything, you know, even in your business, there’s four to six levers, you can pull and those four to six levers are the most important things to drive the outcomes you want. There’s 322, other things people are doing. But there’s four to six, you as a leader, as an owner, as a manager need to be aware of. And so yeah, I think you’re absolutely right, when you start to talk about that sales and marketing alignment idea. It’s interesting, because people talk about it. People laugh about I’ve never had anyone tell me, I’m wrong when I say they’re not in alignment. But yeah, the problem you run, you run into a buzzword. And the problem is everybody has their own definition of what that means. And I think ultimately, it’s because the bad rap of marketers, so if you want to know, as a marketing company, how to just absolutely crush it grow your to grow your company as fast as you want. Here’s what it comes down to. Nobody’s told maybe no one’s told you this before. But the truth is for most digital agencies, at the end of the day, the customer leaves because they feel like the reporting that you did was in your best interest and not in theirs. Yeah. Because you showed them a whole bunch of numbers. And they don’t feel like they got a sale. Yeah, right. Yeah. And everything was about self ID they feel at the end of the day, or self promotion. You know, so I’ll tell you what, here’s the conversation you want to have, you want to get sales and marketing aligned, you want to do it quick you can do right now today. Go to your clients go to go to your boss, go to your company, or for clients that you work with, go to them and say, here’s the deal. Yes, we have 474 other metrics we can report on. But for these four initiatives, these are the most important, I’ll tell you why. Because they track the buyers journey and the customer lifecycle. And if we get these right, all the rest of the numbers will look fantastic. get aligned on get aligned on the few important things. Yeah. And stop, you know, it’s otherwise your mirror just gets a little fuzzy and foggy.
Alex Meade [00:29:23]
Yeah, I kind of like to think that you know, those core, you know, numbers that you’re looking at that she talking about, you know, those those are, you know, what you want to see and will kind of show your success. And if something’s not working, that’s where the other 600 data points come in. It’s like, well, why isn’t this working? This is working. Oh, we’re not we’re not hitting this point. We’re losing people here versus looking at every single data at the whole time. It really is this campaign working? are we hitting these numbers that we’re trying to reach? And that’ll really drive the success. It’s only when it’s not working? Do you want to go back and diagnose the problem. You know, it depends why?
Ken Lundin [00:30:02]
So why wouldn’t work? So why and marketing people fallen for the idea? I mean, that’s like giving all of this the 600 things is the exact opposite of the proper use of a dashboard. Right? And yeah, executive leadership clients, whoever, whoever you’re doing marketing for, they want the dashboard first. And then you just tell them we got a red light yellow light green lights symbol that’s got green on it, we’re gonna pour more gas on if it’s got yellow, it’s well, we got to figure out why it’s there. And if it’s red, we cut it off. Yeah, that’s valuable to me as a business owner. Do that. And then the rest of the stuff work itself out.
Alex Meade [00:30:39]
Yeah, I can, I can talk to you all day. Unfortunately, I don’t know somebody would if people would listen to us all day.
Ken Lundin [00:30:48]
I know. Yeah. You know, me, I like to like to hear my own voice too. So we’re out. Okay.
Alex Meade [00:30:52]
Yeah, no, and I, I’m always I’m always a believer in in the conversation is really where you get to the heart of issues as well. And I think, I think that’s why I do like sales is, when my sales process is successful. It’s because I’m able to have conversations like this where we can be honest and open up and and, and you don’t really get to what the root core is of, of business and personal challenges that we can that we can figure out how to address. So I appreciate your time. I really do. And I think we could probably maybe schedule around two, I think there was plenty more topics we could probably discuss. So maybe we should. Maybe we should plan. Plan a Plan A episode too soon.
Ken Lundin [00:31:34]
Yeah, I’m, oh, man. Yeah, this is great stuff. Sales and marketing is the 50% of a company that most people don’t understand. Right. And so this what you guys are doing as podcasts and what you’re bringing to the market is so important. And the idea of bringing it together from have total growth. Access is great.
Alex Meade [00:31:54]
Yeah, and yeah, no, thank you. So let me let me I’ll give you I’ll give you the floor one more time. How can people? How can people reach out to you? What can they connect with you on? Maybe give us give us some information that they can find you?
Ken Lundin [00:32:11]
Yep, perfect. I think there’s, you know, there’s probably three, three primary ways to find us and that’s one, Ken Lundeen comm l un dia calm, and that’s going to be in the show notes. I’m sure rev heat, which is our digital marketing agency. And then more importantly, I think here’s the offer I’d make, you know, if you’re listening to this or sound like what Alex and Ken are talking about, and I got questions, hook up with me on LinkedIn, tell me tell me that you actually listen to us on the b2b growth Marketer Podcast. And then what I do from there is I’ll give you a free 30 minute strategy session. It won’t go to a sales guy, it’ll come directly to me.
Alex Meade [00:32:46]
Perfect, that’s awesome. And thank you for that. Yeah. So we’ll put all of those links in the show notes. And when we post this on social social, will be sort of tag you and you know, mention that too, for people to reach out to you. So I appreciate that. And Ken, thank you again for being on the show.